Did America Just Elect Negan?
by drfuture2013
I mentioned in my last post that it was probably ill-advised, but that due to rhetoric I had heard from Christians close to me, I could not be silent, and rather focus on more long-term productive tasks like finishing my last book manuscript. I posted anyway, and spent a good bit of time mentioning thoughts to consider, and aspects of Trump’s character and actions that would be good for Christians to ponder further. If you have read it and the comments thereafter, you saw that my points were controversial for some, like most of my posts (it would have been even more controversial if it had been circulated within the greater Christian community, and not just the very special readers of this site).
However, as with many posts I have made (and as a foreboding of the expected response to my books to be imminently released), some of my points were evidently misunderstood, accidentally by many, and maybe intentionally by some. First of all, let me make it again clear for doubters that my last post (nor this one) was an intention to promote the candidacy of Hillary Clinton. I did vote Tuesday as a civic duty, but I did not vote for her or Donald Trump, because they did not meet my standards for trustworthiness, character, wisdom or mercy, as a Christian and humanitarian (I did not try to whitewash their limitations and vices in Christian “double talk” either). I also did not mean to insinuate who I thought would win – after the shocking Brexit vote, I knew that polls were not a reliable indicator). The real reason of my post, as I tried to explain, was my primary concern about how the Christian Right leaders and their followers re-packaged Trump as a pious Christian example, and visionary spiritual leader and messianic figure to “deliver us from evils” as sent by God, and how this rationalizing “spin” behavior will impact the long-term mission of Christians in America in their appointed tasks for the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact, that is the motive of almost all my posts, and my books – how our thoughts, attitudes, words and actions of us as self-proclaimed “representatives of God” impact our eternal heavenly mission and “ministry of reconciliation”, particularly in our frequent quests to obtain transient advantages in power and influence in carnal matters for our own selfish interests and in spite of the “Kingdom fo Heaven” standards, which emphasize the Golden Rule and loving your neighbor and enemies. I may overgeneralize at times (or be perceived as such by those who do not read my posts carefully), but for these objectives I do not apologize. I also did not add a lot of references and linked citations in my last post (as I said I wouldn’t, as I haven’t in other posts as well), because it is very time consuming to do so (and I really need to focus on book writing), and I felt the recent events cited were fresh enough that people should be aware of them (although I shudder to think how many of my Christian colleagues do not read a wide array of news sources outside of talk radio, Facebook and one or two partisan sites). I expect that some people may be in disbelief in many of the assertions and data I cite, and thus why I do cite extensively in my permanent writings. Some readers here may be unaware of the data I cite, and other commenters here try to seed doubt and accuse me of inventing facts, when they merely could confirm them with a one minute Google search. Thus, for this post I will take the extra time to cite online linked references for the actions and quotations I cite, which I think will be embolded in the text for you to click on them, if you desire.
Anyway, on to the subject of my post today. I felt like I had wasted enough time on my last post which probably did little contructive good, and certainly had no intention to go “double or nothing” and post again after the election. However, I had an idea this morning just as I was getting up. Most of you are familiar with (or are watchers) of what has evidently become the most-watched television program in the history of television, and a bona fide cultural phenomenon, called The Walking Dead. Not only is it the only television show that I think is well-written enough to warrant my time, but it is very “non-Hollywood” in that it does not focus on Millennial angst, or beautiful youths hopping into bed with each other, or elite upper-class folk swapping spouses (in which I just described most other shows on TV today). I see it rather as a modern day “Western”, filmed in rural Goergia and not Hollywood, in which a sheriff and a rag tag “klan” of his family, those he loves and his new-found brethren try to survive in a lawless society, where the greatest threat is not the zombie “walkers” (their version of the Apache “savages” in the wasteland), but rather the other survivor groups of dubious nature and purposes. Even the weekly talk show Talking Dead after each episode leads an interesting public debate with a variety of people on set and callers as to the ethics of the actions of these people under dire circumstances – a discussion that is warranted for television.
The recurring theme of the show is the attempt of this group, under non-stop duress and no-win circumstances, to maintain their own humanity and mercy, in a merciless age and environment – a goal at which some times they acomplish better than others. They have generally and consistently taken risks to the group’s well-being to rescue one or two of the group to leave “no child behind”, and have struggled to take risks to incorporate new people into their fold (sometimes causing them to realize new dangers and be betrayed, and sometimes to fail to accept them, all over much debate and soul searching). However, a main portion of the conflict durng the seven seasons is over their encounter with groups who have sacrificed their humanity, for the sake of survival, and the risks it poses to them. They have survived a mentally twisted Governor and his idyllic community, and a group at Terminus who were broken by other savages and now resort to the worst taboos against others. Others were purely depraved like the Wolves. However, this current season, which is breaking all TV viewing records, concerns their deadliest foe yet – the brutal yet pragmatic “Negan” and his mercenary group “The Saviors”. The picture above shows Negan towering over the the star Sheriff Rick Grimes’ group as Negan and his men have terrorized and then captured them, forcing them on bended knee before him as he taunts them. Shortly thereafter, he executed (pun intended) the acts which have become most famous in the series – brutally and mercilessly bashing in the brains of two beloved members of their group with his famous barbbed wire-lined bat called “Lucille”, they having been chosen randomly to “teach them all a lesson” not to resist (a “message” which broke them to the point of capitulation).
In the few weeks since this episode aired, we have observed and learned more about Negan and his group. This morning I sudenly realized the similarity between Negan and his “operation”, and that of Donald Trump and his supporters and followers to “make America Great Again”. Follow me as I give a few examples of their natures and similarities, and a few citations to both confirm and archive these actions:
NEGAN – Negan is a charismatic figure with wit, a sense of irony, supreme self-confience and focus on “winning” over others, wrapped up in a “swagger” that attracts followers more than repulses them (at least many types of people), not being burdened by propriety or political correctness, or even the Golden Rule.
TRUMP – I need no citations to make this comparson clear to most readers. This last description is the best way to describe Trump’s life and image, both historically and during the campaign. “Winning” was a major and recurring theme of Trump’s campaign, as well as his books (which have been ghostwritten by others), Trump University, etc. Trump can evidently “charm the socks off a rooster” with most of the public, who are dazzled by his swagger, bravado, boasting comments, conspicuous opulence and self-absorption (which is why he may have close affinity to evangelical leaders who can do the same to them as well).
NEGAN: One can see that Negan has attracted brutes, bullies, ruffians and “hot heads” to his gang, who like to threaten others as much as he does. He has encouraged them to beat up outsiders brutally, not wanting to have all the “fun” himself. This includes group member Darryl (on two occasions), and other people as they are captured or encountered on the road.
TRUMP: One needs to only watch the Trump rallies closely to see many of the same crowd in their functions. He bragged on televised addresses over his early victories that polls showed he leads in support amongst the “poorly educated” saying, “I love the poorly educated!”. After the election, pollsters showed that he led in those without college degrees nor college-educated. Certainly there is nothing sacred or noble about a college degree, and if it makes one smug or elitist it is a detriment, but it is clear that Trump has focused his message on those with limited tools of discernment, and the many televised interviews with Trump supportors have shown them largely (but not totally) motivated by emotions or anger, or simplistic views of problems. More disturbingly, Trump has been shown encouraging rally members to be physically violent with protesters at his rallies. He has told rally attendees on camera to “knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Okay? Just knock the hell — I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees.”; in others, he has said, ““I’d like to punch him in the face, I’ll tell ya,” to a protester. Attendees at these events have been shown punching or roughing up protesters at the events or Muslim women reporters ; elsewhere, the cited erefence notes that “a 78-year-old white male audience member at a Trump rally in North Carolina was videotaped sucker-punching a black protester being escorted from the event by police. The man, John McGraw, was later charged with assault and battery. But it was the protester who ended up in handcuffs at the rally”. Many more such exmaples could be listed, but do you get the point? Is this how things looked at Nazi rallies in the 1920s, when his SA goons grabbed protesters of other political views who were then drug out of those halls and worked over?
NEGAN: Negan believes in using terror, or the fear of terror, to control people as a “force multiplier”, to keep not only outsiders but even his own people in line, and not challenge him as a single man with a bat who mentally controls many. His barbaric barbed-wire-lined bat, dripping with blood, he uses phallicly toward others, directly in their face, to breed their fears and to dehumanize them. When Sheriff Rick initially offered some resistance, Negan countered by forcing him to amputate his own son’s hand (to the point of committing the act). Others in his own group who did not meet his demands he disfigured on their face with a hot iron. Even more heinous means were in his toolbelt, to get what he wanted from others.
TRUMP: Trump has clearly gone on the record that he not only wants to bring the torture protocols back for detainees, but also make them even worse. When a suspect was captured from the recent Paris terror attacks, Trum said on his Twitter that he would have talked “a lot faster with the torture”. Trump has been far more explicit; he said on a New Hampshire television interview that “we’re going to have to get much tougher as a country. We’re going to have to be a lot sharper and we’re going to have to do things that are unthinkable almost.” In the televised New Hamphire primary, he stated, ” I would bring back waterboarding, and I’d bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding.” On Feb. 17, he publicly said, ” Torture works. OK, folks? You know, I have these guys—”Torture doesn’t work!”—believe me, it works. And waterboarding is your minor form. Some people say it’s not actually torture. Let’s assume it is. But they asked me the question: What do you think of waterboarding? Absolutely fine. But we should go much stronger than waterboarding”, and on July 27 he said, “I am a person that believes in enhanced interrogation, yes. And by the way, it works.” At a recent rally, he said regarding torture you have to “fight fire with fire”, and added, “What do you think about waterboarding?” Trump asked the crowd. They cheered as he gave his answer: “I like it a lot. I don’t think it’s tough enough.” These are but a few examples.
NEGAN: Negan has no compassion for “outsiders” outside his “klan”, unless he can exploit them for his purposes. Regardless, he has no mercy on them or see them as fellow human beings. They also will be kept out and away from the benefits of his society unless they can offer more in return.
TRUMP: The hallmark of Trump’s campaign was to exlcude and eliminate “undesirables”. At a press conference he held on December 7, 2015, he read an official statement that said, “Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering in the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what the hell is going on…we have no choice…it is going to get worse, you’re going ot have more World Trade Centers…we can be politically correct and we can be stupid…folks, those days are over, we have to be tough…yes we will look at mosques”. This view is not only that of Trump’s – it’s that of his “klan” coast to coast. A June 2016 Reuters poll showed that 50% of all Americans said that there should be a temporary ban of all Muslim immigrants to the U.S. CBS News reported in July 2015 that Donald Trump followed up his early campaign pronouncements (as in his early debate appearances) with the assertion that the U.S. was becoming a ‘dumping ground” of outsiders with the world’s problems, and reiterated his position in a CNN interview. He stated that the Mexican government was sending people of which “they’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.”. when the interviewer pointed out that the women Trump cited as being raped were victimized prior to entering the country, Trump replied, “Well, somebody’s doing the raping, Don. I mean, you know, somebody’s doing it. Who’s doing the raping?” – a phrase he reiterated during the campaign. Alicia Machado, the woman he crowned Miss Universe (as Trump runs many beauty pageants), was told she was fat by Trump and fired, and as a Hispanic was called by him, “Miss Housekeeping”. I am glad Trump was not able to force his immigration policies in ancient Israel – the world would have missed the contributions of Rahab, and the Moabitess Ruth – both famed ancestors of our Lord. If the Philistines had had such a policy, they would not have generously accepted David and his followers as they were wanted men in Israel. Of course, Trump himself imported his own wife as an immigrant from one of the U.S.’s recent Iron Curtain enemies – I wonder if he might send her back, as Ezra the priest did in sending all foreign women and children away to their death who had married Jewish men, to set a good example to the rest of us?
NEGAN: Negan’s fundamental policy was to take the spoils and resources of any outsiders he encountered as his own. Sometimes he would let people in his spheres of control keep up to half, at his discretion, and would continue to take from them over time. He also encouraged his loyal henchmen to help themselves to the goods of others as they desired.
TRUMP: Trump has a similar policy; whereas before he had to use his access to capital, and to New York lawyers to enforce these provisions, he will now have the IRS, CIA and military to do the collecting for him. While he did not think it was wise to invade Iraq (after originally supporting it), he did think it could be worthwhile if we confiscated the profitable oil from the very country which we ourselves had destroyed and impoverished (first by sanctions, and then by bombs). The Atlantic noted that in August 2016, like many times before, Trump gave a speech in which he stated regarding our involvement in Iraq, “We should have kept the oil…I was saying this constantly and consistently to whoever would listen. I said: Keep the oil, keep the oil, keep the oil…In the old days, when we won a war, to the victor belonged the spoils…Instead, all we got from Iraq—and our adventures in the Middle East—was death, destruction and tremendous financial loss.” The Los Angeles Times added that “It also would have violated decades of international law, including the Geneva Conventions, as well as the United Nations mandate that authorized the invasion.” I guess we now know that Trump also would not have come to the aid of the millions of victims in the Tutsi-Hutu conflict in Africa – there was no oil there to justify it, as America’s critics now feel justified in having pointed out over the decades. Trump even declared that he would not honor America’s long treaty commitments to aid a fellow NATO member if attacked, unless they had paid significantly in advance. In a July 2016 New York Times interview regarding helping NATO nations, Trump stated that “You can’t forget the bills. They have an obligation to make payments. Many NATO nations are not making payments, are not making what they’re supposed to make. That’s a big thing. You can’t say forget that..Have they fulfilled their obligations to us? If they fulfill their obligations to us, the answer is yes.”, and in May 2016 also told the Wall Street Journal that when other NATO nations “don’t pay up, they’ve backed out of their obligations, then we no longer have an obligation to defend them.” (while they note that the only time the NATO provision has been enacted is when the other NATO nations came to the aid of the U.S. after the 9/11 attacks).
Trump thinks like a businessman, and makes decisions based upon the bottom line ledger – not morality, or mercy or civility. He sees war as only another money-making operation, and would only pursue it in that context (and would stay out of those he did not deem monetarily profitable). Trump also plans another way for he and his henchmen to clean up from others – this time their fellow Americans; in one of the few detailed plans Trump has produced, Trump’s published tax plan will adjust the tax brackets so that the rates on the most wealthy will come down considerably, while the lowest bracket of the poor will rise, and the lower middle class will be about the same. By eliminating personal exemptions, low and middle-income families with many children will have their tax go up a good bit. Currently, estates above $5.45 million are subject to inheritance tax regarding the fortunes passed on to offspring within rich family lines to prevent their need to work for generations; Trump will make sure that this tax on the ultra-wealthy will be eliminated. He will also bring the tax brackets down for the largest corporations down (from 39.6% or so) to about the rate of the most poor in society (15%). Will Trump’s own estate benefit from these rules?
NEGAN: Unless you are one of his “elite” henchmen, residents at Negan’s ‘Sanctuary” have to earn “points” to gain their basis necessities he has confiscated from them. In the case of one of his henchmen on the show, this includes access to fundemental health care needs such as critical medical drugs. In contrast, Sheriff Rick’s group provided medicine freely to anyone in his group who showed a need for it, and they would often risk their lives to obtain it, such as an intubator for his son Carl, or emergency medical care for a sick pregnant member.
TRUMP: Trump prefers Negan’s approach to health care, by abolishing Obamacare, which provided basic health coverage for those with pre-existing conditions who could not get coverage as “bad investments” to the insurance companies, and making sure they had access to catatrophic care so the banks could not later wipe them out; Trump sees “no money” in covering these people, and will leave them to their own fate.
NEGAN: Negan has been shown to sneer and mock the weak and wounded, including those whom he has just beaned with his bat and look “real messed up”, and otherwise are a “mess” because of their suffering and misfortune.
TRUMP: Trump shares a similar view. He is famous for recently mocking a disabled reporter investigating his claims. He unfortunately has a palsy-like neurological condition that causes limb contortions and tremors, to which Trump at the lectern began to impersonate with exaggerated limb shaking and facial contortions – behavior society deems unacceptable for teenaged boys, much less the Leader of the Free World. Trump always outdoes himself – at the 2015 Family Leadership Summit in Iowa, Trump famously said of long-time tortured POW Senator John McCain, “He’s not a war hero…He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.” The citation adds, “Trump received four student deferments from military service between 1964 and 1968. In Ames, he told reporters another medical deferment he received after graduating was for a bone spur in his foot. When asked which foot, Trump told reporters to look up the records.” A published survey showed that people felt that this was his most offensive comment (while noting that Trump claimed he did not know the reporter nor that he was disabled, while the reporter claimed that he and Trump had been on a first-name basis for many years), even more offensive then his statements that the “second amendment people” amongt his followers should take care of Hillary Clinton.
NEGAN: Negan is famous for how he treats women. He rates them based if they are “smokin’ hot” or not, and if he takes a shine to them, he forcibly taked them to be his concubine “wives”, thereby nullifying their lawful marriages to other men present.
TRUMP: Trump’s history is very similar, which American Christian supporters have amazingly excused. An abbreviated list of some of his more famous past and recent comments about women include his assertion that debate moderator Megyn Kelly was menstruating during the debate to justify her fierce quesitoning of him (saying that “blood was coming out of her…whatever”), such as when she cited that it had been documented that”You’ve called women you don’t like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals”, to which he said it was only directed to Rosie O’Donnell. He said in a 1991 Eqsuire Magazine profile that “You know, it really doesn’t matter what they write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass. But she’s got to be young and beautiful.” He said that Arianna Huffington was “unattractive both inside and out”, and that a female New York Times reporter had “the face of a dog”. Of a female contestant on his show The Apprentice, he said as she stooped in front of him, “It must be a pretty picture,” he said to her. “You dropping to your knees.” He also tweeted that Bette Midler was “extremely unattractive”. Of Hillary he said, “Frankly, if Hillary Clinton were a man, I don’t think she’d get 5 percent of the vote,” Trump said in April. “The only thing she’s got going is the women’s card.” He now uses former Fox News chief Roger Ailes, whom the network found was sexually harrassing women there, to be a chief advisor for him. He released an unflattering picture of Heidi Cruz next to his own wife, and entitled it, ‘The images are worth a thousand words”. On an Entertainment Tonight interview in 1992, he pointed out a 10 year old girl nearby, and said, “I am going to be dating her in ten years. Can you believe it?”. He not only called Miss Universe Alicia Machado “Miss Housekeeping”, he also publicly called her “Miss Piggy” and “an eating machine” (the New York Post also reported that Trump also arrived unannounced in his beauty pageant dressing rooms as the contestants were nude, making “creepy” comments to them (including 15 year old participants), and later saying on the radio to Howard Stern in 2005 that it was one of the “perks” of ownership, adding, ““I’ll tell you the funniest is that I’ll go backstage before a show and everyone’s getting dressed…No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it…You know, they’re standing there with no clothes…And you see these incredible-looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”) . Of course, the list also includes the video of him bragging to an interviewer (who has since lost his job with the Today Show) about his targeting of married women to initiate adulterous affairs, and grabbing women by their genitals and leading them around or forcing himself on them and getting away with it because he was a celebrity. Another published list notes his assertion that people should not vote for primary rival Carly Fiorina because of her face, and that he said he’d really like to date his daughter Ivanka. In 1992 in New York Magazine, he said of women that “You have to treat them like shit”. When asked in 1993 about his reputation as a womanizer, he said, “Yes I have that image. I think women are beautiful – I think certain women are more beautiful than others, to be perfectly honest – and it’s fortunate I don’t have to run for political office.” Talking of one of his former wives, he said, “when I come home and dinner’s not ready, I go through the roof.” Regarding prenuptual agreements for his wives, he said, ““There are basically three types of women and reactions. One is the good woman who very much loves her future husband, solely for himself, but refuses to sign the agreement on principle. I fully understand this, but the man should take a pass anyway and find someone else.” He said that when he bought the Miss USA pageant, “I’m going to get the bathing suits to be smaller and the heels to be higher.” Of his daughter Ivanka, he said, “”You know who’s one of the great beauties of the world, according to everybody? And I helped create her. Ivanka. My daughter, Ivanka. She’s 6 feet tall, she’s got the best body.”, and adding on the TV show The View, “If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.” Trump said on Howard Stern’s radio show that he’s “been with women with extraordinarily bad breast jobs’ and ‘pancake tits’. There are many more I could list.
NEGAN: His followers have been corralled and maintained by a combination of privleges offered to them, and dreadful fears if they do not stay in line. However, some of them are having doubts and are considering defection.
TRUMP: Trump similarly has made promises of insider influence to prominent evangelical Religious Right leaders and other conservatives whom he has portrayed as his spiritual advisors. Others, like House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senator Ted Cruz he has corralled after their original adamant refusal on grounds of principle, with threats of political disenfranchisement and blowback if they did not get in line. CBS election day exit polls found that of the “winner”, Donald Trump, 60% of voters said he was not honest or trustworthy, and 60% of voters said that Trump was not qualified for the office of the presidency, with even 25% of Trump voters saying he was unqualified (I guess motivated by their Hillary hatred exclusively). NBC exit polls said that 60% of voters had an unfavorable view of Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton received almost a quarter of a million more votes than Trump (how would he have acted had he won the total vote count but lost the electoral collage in his “rigged system” mindset?), who himself secured less than half of the public’s votes. When they all see that Trump now has no obligation on fulfilling any promises to these individuals and groups, now having obtained their support to accomplish his election objectives, will any of them then have the courage to defect and stand up to him? When Trump has control of the CIA, FBI and IRS, will they dare speak up, given his history of petty reactionary harrassment?
A BIG Difference between them:
NEGAN: Negan came to power during a time of lawlessness and upheaval, in a society suddenly with “no rules”. He somehow provides a measure of security, along with exploitation and brutality, that might be at least partially excused in his unique times and challenges.
TRUMP: In contrast, Trump came to prominence in a time of relative prosperity and peace in America, without any tangible civil wars or major unrest, or economic calamity. America had built on almost two hundred years of racial and human rights progress. Public demographics were turning away from those interested in Trump’s xenophobic, paranoid demagoguery. Now Trump has a majority in both chambers of Congress, and has no restraint on his excesses moving forward, much like Hitler when he assumed the Chancellory in 1933. So how did he do it? Exit polls show that Trump received 81 percent of the evangelical vote, while noting that 76% of evangelicals are Republican, making up one fifth of all voters, and a third of Republican voters. The story of how he seduced most of Christ’s Body in America (and particularly its leadership), and what it reveals about their gullibility, lack of principle and respect for basic virtues and values, and lack of recognition of the true spiritual priorities of Christ Himself and for God’s people in assisting secular governments in the scope of responsiblilities God has given them, as distiguished from those of the church itself, and lack of basic common sense maturity much less maturity of the spiritual variety, is a story that requires much data to consider, and is beyond the scope of this post, but may be started to be discussed soon thereafter. What this has revealed about the true mind of most of the American evangelical community, and how this will affect their mission in the future, is the far bigger story than who won this last election, in my view.
The BIG question is – Trump has gotten his big objective and trophy, presumably, in being the most powerful man in the world and secured his place in world history, but what will be his true motivations and goals during his administration? Using his life history as a guide, Trump would be first motivated by (a) what raises his prestige, respect, praise and overall “brand”, and (b) what will monetarily help him and his financial peers either now or down the road. Regarding (b), the clear details of his proposed tax plan (which will likely fly relatively unscathed through a Republican-controlled Congress) will largely accomplish those goals for his checkbook and others; how he opens doors for big business via his foreign policy and stopping raises in the minimum wage or the requirement to provide health care to workers, for example, are other ways he can accomplish this objective. Regarding (a), what else does he have to accomplish for his ego? Wipe out ISIS? Raise the gross national product? Be popular enough to be able to be re-elected if he chooses? Time will tell.
Most people who have had concerns about Trump recoginize that they really don’t know what he will do – could he be surprisingly statesman-like and visionary, or autocratic and cruel to minorities on the margins, as he has suggested? Heal rifts with other cultures and nations, or bring us to war? What did his behavior during the campaign, much less his history, suggest will happen? Actually, his history of being an intimidating “tough guy” and using strong-armed tactics reveals that he usually doesn’t believe the nasty things he says, for once he has “won” – albeit in securing the business deal or contract, the court case, or even the court of public opinion – he then begins speaking kindly of those he has humiliated after he has defeated him, suggesting that he may not actually pursue the most severe, ugly and draconian policy approaches he sold to his followers in the campaign. Even during this campaign, how many times has he warned people of the unsuitability and dangers of “Little Marco” Rubio, “Lying Ted” Cruz, and even “Crooked” Hillary, all of whom he has praised after he had disposed of them. As another example, The Hill, Buzzfeed and others have reported that the New York Times possesses an audiotape and transcript from an off the record portion of their interview with Trump this year on his immigration plans, which attendees suggest or implied that he does not plan to actually follow through on the positions he sold to his followers, as evidence the Times will not release unless he approves, which led Sen. Ted Cruz to state that the tapes they have suggest that Trump “doesn’t believe what he’s saying on immigration. That all of his promises to secure the borders are not real and if he’s president he doesn’t intend to do what he says…The New York Times apparently has this on tape…The voters deserve to know if he says something different when he’s talking to The New York Times then he does when he’s talking to the voters”, as a posiiton also echoed by Sen. Marco Rubio. This tendency for Trump and his peers to make these serious and dramatic charges against others as traitors and criminals (including Hillary, whom he promised to lock up to her face in a debate, and now praises right after the election as a real patriot) leads us not to take seriously what any of them say; not only should we not get worked up over their allegations, but why do we not not get behind leaders who have a reputation for honesty and straight talk, even with policy differences, rather than who has the most charisma, bravado or macho image? However, if he hesitates to pursue all these inquisitions against Mexicans, immigrants and Muslims to the severe degree he “sold”, it will certainly disappoint many Christians that counted on him to be the “strong man” and bringer of wrath. I suspect that they will find that after he has secured their votes, the last thought on his mind will be how the Religious Right members he counted on for election consider his actions, or if he lives up to what they wanted him to be.
In any case, beyond my verbose opinions, what I do know is that the Bible is clear that Christians are to pray for the blessing of their rulers. We all have that obligation on behalf of Donald Trump by the command of our Saviour, that he could help fulfill the role of what national governments are to do to secure the well-being of its subjects on the issues God has assigned to them as evidenced by the words of the Lord through the prophets and apostles, to protect their citizens from outsiders, look out for the minority and vulnerable stranger, the poor, the widows and orphans, and provide honest and fair courts and marketplace for everyone, and particularly the poor. I plan to do that duty in prayer for Trump; I wonder how many Christians have fulfilled that duty in sincerity for President Obama? I also plan to still critique my own heart and values as a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven, and that of my brethren here; that is the right and productive thing to do, because “judgment must begin at the house of God” (1 Peter 4:17), and due to Paul’s admonition to the church itself that “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside” (1 Cor. 5:12-13). While we are to be educated about the true nature of these exploitative politicans of every stripe to “be not deceived”, the real focus of judgment and self-assessment belongs to the Church in America itself, for and of itself, and who it needs to be in the midst of these issues.
The experience of this election process, and how I perceive the American church participated in it and how it revealed its values, reminds me of the words of the Greek philosopher Thucydides, in his famous writing History of Peloponnesian War, Book III, 3.82, as he saw demogogues emerge in his society on the advent of regional war – which may be what we will receive as a consequence of this age of demagoguery – when he observed:
“To fit in with the change of events, words, too, had to change their usual meanings. What used to be described as a thoughtless act of aggression was now regarded as the courage one would expect to find in a party member; to think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise one’s unmanly character; ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action. Fanatical enthusiasm was the mark of a real man, and to plot against an enemy behind his back was perfectly legitimate self-defense. Anyone who held violent opinions could always be trusted, and anyone who objected to them became a suspect…If an opponent made a reasonable speech, the party in power, so far from giving it a generous reception, took every precaution to see that it had no practical effect.”
Mike, your “inquisition against Mexicans” rhetoric is ridiculous. You think he’s going to go after Mexicans as the Roman Catholic Church went after Muslims? He has nothing against LEGAL immigration, as no one should. He, as do I, does have a problem with ILLEGAL immigration. Why? Because it’s against the law!
Please indicate which of these things you think are BAD for the country, both as a patriot and a Christian:
1. Border protection that keep out illegal immigrants and drugs; A nation without borders and that don’t enforce laws is not a nation
2. Pro-life
3. Lower taxes on individuals
4. Draining the DC swamp of lobbyists, special interests, and corruption.
5. Reversing Obama regulations that stifle business but protect “Mother Earth”
6. Repealing the socialist Obamacare with a more fair health care system
7. Vow to wipe out ISIS who behead Christians, Jews, etc.
8. Rebuild the infrastructure of the country and inner cities
9. Rebuild the military to ensure a strong Common Defense and support vets
10. Repeal Common Core and give education back to states
11. Eliminate unnecessary government programs
12. Negotiate trade deals that are fair toward the USA
13. Appoint conservative Supreme Court judges
The Never Trumpers just don’t get it. Yes, the guy is not perfect, not a Christian man at all. But the key for me was always ABC, Anybody But Clinton, a vile criminal who led a vile criminal organization. It’s a no-brainer.
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1. We’ll see how well he does that, without hurting innocent parties, or waters down his plan beyond that which he promised voters and they expect. The Mexicans are rapists slogan, like stopping all Muslim immigration, was a bumper sticker he used to rile up the paranoid and hotheads (including many Christians) to find him a unique position in the Republican field, and have something to talk about.
2. He has no real record of doing anything on this issue, other than a recent ‘conversion” just before the campaign; see if he stops any abortions than the other 27 years the Republicans were in charge after Roe v Wade.
3. My comments on his tax plan suggests that normal people will get shafted, but the wealthiest and corporations will come out smelling like a rose. Someone will have to take up the slack for them.
4. He is already interviewing lobbyists for administration positions now. He has had plenty of slimy people on his campaign staff already.
5. Which specific regulations have shut down which businesses? BTW, are we looking to get rid of that useless clean water and air?
6. Show me the evidence of a new plan that actually provides better quality health care for people (I am neutral on any merits of Obamacare except its provision for all people, but I want to see proof of improvement first)
7. To get rid of ISIS, you will have to attack Israel, Saudi Arabia and even the US who have been training them in Turkey and Jordan, as documented as far back as 2013.
8. Republicans have been famous for their burning desire to help the inner cities – that’s why so many of them live there.
9. The military needs to shrink dramatically to be a real “defense”, and not a global arm of empire.
10. Will we have no minimum standards for students nationwide? What happens to students in poor states (like where I came from), or those states whose board members only want them to read “Christian” books and not learn about the outside world, or the real America? I am not familiar enough with Common Core, but before national standards, what did kids in the South learn about civil rights?
11. This is like paying for stuff by “eliminating fraud and waste” – easy to say, but no detail. Maybe we could cut those who inspect meat, or bridges. I have an idea – cut about 3/4 of the Pentagon budget, which is almost all wasted on unneeded contractor and general salaries and pensions (I know from personal experience), multi-million dollar airplanes to mount on poles outside general’s offices, etc.
12. That’s great – good luck! Let’s do a report card on this one in two years.
13. Maybe they can “conserve” the status quo before civil rights, interracial marriage, etc. All those marginal people we don’t agree with don’t need their rights anyway, do they? They had plenty of conservative judges in the South when the Klan members got off the hook. Maybe we can hang the Ten Commandments back up, and stone people for breaking the Sabbath (that would be most of us). I would like to see judges defending not “conservatism”, but the BIll of Rights – for all people.
Saying that Trump is “not perfect” is like saying Pol Pot is not “totally innocent”. If he had only one or two shortcomings! Have you seen my abbreviated list in the posts? Even if he just acted like a grown adult! This reinforces my view that a large number of evangelicals today are defined by their main priority of “who they hate” – Clinton, Obama, Muslims, gays, liberals, etc. – and they would gladly “shake hands with the devil” to get revenge on them. Who will be at the top of their “Wheel of Hate” the next four years?
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Great post, Dr. Future. It’s been refreshing seeing a perspective that closely relates to my own. I have decided, however, that even though I loath Trump, I am going to do my best to support President Trump and hope that he turns out to be a decent leader. I pray that he leads this country well and I pray for him. The next four could be horrendous, but they could be ok. Here’s to hoping for the best!
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Thanks for the encouragement, and good exhortation, friend. Let’s all pray that God can change the man we have inherited. At least I pray that God will protect those vulnerable to his actions.
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You know, even though it was the complete opposite of his campaign, his acceptance speech left me slightly encouraged and that, I think, has me finding myself cautiously optimistic. God bless the U.S.
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Cautious optimism = GONE
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I was raised in Louisville too (just down the road) – in Camp Taylor off Preston Highway. I’m a proud Louisville Cardinal graduate. I get up there at least once a month to see the folks. How old are you? Do you remember midnight movies at the Vogue?
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I’m 31 and was raised in the Portland neighborhood. Attended Portland Christian School, and was taught by, still my favorite teacher, Robert Heid. And, no, I do not remember midnight movies at the Vogue. 🙂
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Aha! The common Robert Heid connection (I’m Portland Christian Class of 82). Did you know he once starred in a feature length science fiction movie I produced, called “Nightmare on Neptune”?
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I had heard that rumor! Now that I know the name of it I’m going to have to find it.
Portland Christian Class of 04. We had our ten year reunion a couple years ago, but I had to miss it because I was out to sea.
Robert taught me in many classes over high school, but I’ll never forget the time he taught me, and half my class, chemistry over a couple lunchtimes lol he also taught Senior Bible and to this day it’s the best class I’ve ever taken.
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Trump is a used car salesman. May he be a benevolent use car salesman that sold us a better car than was promised to us. Trump is not pro-life; he is an opportunist who only “became” pro-life when he saw that the people who might vote for him were pro-life. The people who has provided so far as potential nominees are from the same old insider special interest groups. Republicans do a good job about complaining about regulation, but not about specific regulations. And lets say global warming is not real, does that mean that we should trash our environment? I think not. Obamacare does frankly suck, but Obamacare a result the lack of ingenuity of Republicans. Rebuilding infrastructure is a classic Democratic idea, but hey Donald is a Democrat. ISIS loves Donald; he makes recruiting videos for them. Common Core is not what the nut job media proclaim it to be. Our country has inconsistent and ever-lowering educational standards. I can tell you that my public education was far superior than provided to others that lived in other areas of the country, state, and section of my State. We need to ensure that every child, not just the children of the wealthy have the opportunity receive a quality education. I would love people to tell me exactly what the unnecessary government programs are, I know there are unnecessary government programs and I know a few, but I am sick of hearing ridiculous ideas like getting rid of the IRS. I believe in competitive trade (not necessarily free trade but neither does Trump or Republicans apparently); I do not feel that the deals in place are unfair to Americans; I have all kinds of cheap products that I could not have without the current deals in place. (I just saw an ad for 60″ 4k tv for under $500.) I do believe that international trade is not as advantageous to small business or the individuals whose skills sets are limited. I do believe that there should be a means to ensure that we help those people be able to support themselves. Part of me is happy that conservative supreme court justices would be appointed, but part of me realizes that those in power do not care about my issues where that would matter (abortion). i realize Republicans are more interested in ensuring that Comcast is able to have a monopoly and limit my access to competitors products.
Trump has already backed down on many of his promises once he was elected. Lets hope that he backs down on the right promises and doesn’t on the ones that were good ideas.
This will be my last comment on politics for a long time (hopefully ever). I am so sickened that we somehow have chosen the most immoral president ever over the other major party choice who was just as immoral. I can not comprehend how any Christian can be happy, pleased, or not even saddened by this outcome. We have become a nation that cares more about ourselves rather than serving others; making sure that we get ours rather than making sure that others are cared for. We mortgage the futures of subsequent generations, so we can live well today. This was rambling I know but I’m done.
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I wish I would have voted for you for president. These statements matched my heart, point for point, and I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thaks for investing the time to put together a well-thought out comment of some depth.
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Respectfully, I think you watch too much Walking Dead. Yes, you make some valid points, but other points are Completely lost! I am still Very thankful we dodged the Hillary monster. Did you turn a blind eye to her extreme corruption? Or her downright evil associations?
That being said, now’s the time we should all get closer to Jesus Christ. And yes, to your point, a healthy skepticism is also important of Any politician. While we may disagree I respect your views.
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Justin, Thank you for your feedback. I just used the Walking Dead as a metaphor since it is the most popular show in the history of television, and a common cultural touchstone which can be used for an illustration. I think it can enlighten on the fact that all bullies, fictional or not, use the same modus operandi, focused on personal enrichment (with a few bones for their henchmen) and debasement of others (in addition to their exploitation), as opposed to ideological purity or vision.
Regarding Hillary, I already explained that I acknowledged her corruption. I also have to admit that I can now see that the Limbaugh/Drudge/Alex Jones/Brietbart propaganda machine (one of many, and a well I drank from for years) has long set the narrative for conservative Christians, and I now see how some real truth is mixed with a big batch of innuendo, rumor, and speculation, to elevate corrupt people to the level of Darth Sidious, in the eyes of many, with little verification (I now know more about the billionaires who pay for this, and their agendas and peculiarities – check out Richard Mellon Scaife as an example). Beyond listening to talk radio, Facebook or emails, few bother to vet information, read newspapers or history books – they have time to sound off, but little time to research. It also sets them up to “shake hands with the devil” once they have exaggerated the claims about others. I don’t know what will fuel the passion of conservative Christians (and line the pockets of their ministries in their money appeals) with the evil Hillary and Obama out of the way.
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I forgot to add that I attempted to recite and then respond to Donald Trump’s actual public pronouncements and actions, and not just whipsered rumors. I also have my own hunches, opinions, analysis and speculations, based upon what I can verify as well.
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What can I say? You’ve certainly succeeded in making me think. No doubt about it!
In response, I will offer this: The lame-stream media has zero credibility in my eyes. The Pope has zero credibility in my eyes. The Democrat/socialist party has zero credibility in my eyes. Obama’s CIA has zero credibility (just look at how they’re pushing the whole Russia fixed our election narrative). Yet what do they all have in common?
At some point the enemy of my enemy is my friend. What would your response be to that? Eager to read your response, thank you Doc.
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I can’t say much here because of a family health emergency that has me on 24-7 duty out of town currently.
I agree with you in the few institutions that have credibility. While I have been a life-long Christian conservative in theology and politics, and still actively work in such a church and cling to the Gospel and discipleship of Jesus and the writings of the Apostles, the few voices I still respect might surprise many. I like investigative sources tha cut both ways and get real facts compiled, like Glenn Greenwald’s theintercept.com, and sources like Mother Jones (one of the most useful sites of data for me has been rightwingwatch.org, which I recommend to every open-minded Christian to help see why “our enemies” rightfully view us like they do). While I don’t agree with many basic Catholic doctrines, I think this Pope has the general attitude of Christ and “gets it”, as opposed to the Pharisaical Calvinist hateful attitude against all others and the “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” attitude of their Father that many conservative Protestants have; He understands the “weightier matters of the law”, such as justice and mercy. He recently said that those who wallow in fake news” have a tendency of coprophagia, and I like a Pope who talks like that. I now appreciate “true liberals” who really care about the welfare of their fellow man, as opposed to the “limousine liberals” and the Darwinistic survival of the fittest view of conservative Christians (particularly in terms of capitalism and gunboat diplomacy). The CIA has has no credibility to me since 1947, when MI-6 helped form them with the assistance of Wall Street, using their people to protect American corporate interests. They control the data available to Obama, just like every other president (BTW, I think only the curmudgeon Bernie Sanders would have been willing to take a bullet to oppose them).
Israel thought they could trust in their “enemy” Egypt and their chariots to oppose Nebuchadnezzar; God said they just rejected His protection and ways. Christians are the most quick to sacrifice their values and beliefs they judge others by, all in the cause of “winning” and gaining control over others (at least 81% of them), in “shaking hands with the devil”.
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See, now you Completely lost me. The pope talking about coprophagia was refreshing to you? Wow. Did he even give any examples or did he just throw that wild claim out there? Seems to me he’s simply falling in line with the MSM/NWO ‘fake news’ narrative. And your esteem for Bernie is absolutely misguided. He sold out to Hillary, point blank. I appreciate your input but I am disappointed in your intellectual honesty as well as your misconceived/borderline judgmental view of “many protestants”. Agree to disagree, yet I wish you all the best.
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yesiree…I loved the Pope’s comments (like many others), because like the Father and His Son, his descriptions were real (they are also self-evident to anyone who regularly reads the public pronouncements of much of the “religious” public for any length of time). For example, the Father told His prophets to tell the “exceptional” Jews, the “apple of His eye”, that He would cast them aside “as a menstrous cloth”, and frequently described them as the worst of whores. Jesus used similar language about the “Godly leaders” of His day, referring to them as “open graves”, robbers of old women and much worse (His forefrunner John the Baptist called them a “brood of vipers”, so the Pope was actually being kind). The self-righteuous (yet inwardly corrupt) “Judeo-Christian leaders” (i.e. Pharisees of any age) are always offended by God’s “straight talk”. I know I feel offended when it applies to me.
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I think that you need to seriously compare, as a Berean, the comments that the pope has made, to the Bible. My Bible says that Jesus is the only way to the Father and there is only one God and it is not the same as the Muslim god, or any other false religion . Jesus said the world would hate us, and particularly in these end times, people like the pope are trying to get all the religions together and just love on each other . That’s not the gospel. True believers of Jesus are not going to fit in with this one world religion that the pope is pushing . And we will never be united with this ” kumbaya .. lets get together and just love one another ” crowd. We are not united in the love of Christ , we are united in faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. There can be no unity outside the gospel of Jesus.
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Sister Sara,
I am not an apologist for the Pope or Catholics (which I am not), but can you refresh me on the specific things the Pope has said concerning the Bible or about Jesus that are heretical, within the proper greater context in which he said them? I would expect that both you and I together have major disagreements with some primary Catholic doctrines, and at times it may be constructive to debate them, but they do acknowledge that Jesus died on the cross to atone for our sins, and the Father raised Him from the dead. Do we really want to go beyond pointing out our doctrinal differences to the point of disregarding their confession regarding our risen Lord?
We as Christians differ with Muslims as to some attributes of the God of Abraham, as well as the full nature of Jesus, but at its founding they told their fellow Arabs that the God of Abraham was the REAL God, and not their old pagan gods, such as the moon god Habal that Mohammed threw off the Kabaah in Mecca. They also claim that Jesus was sinless, born of a virgin, and that God raised Him from the dead (at least that’s what my Muslim friends have told me). Are we to have a conversation with Muslims about what the prophets in the Old Testament that they accept have to say about the full nature of Jesus, or do we dispute their assertion that the God of Abraham is the real God?
When we obsess on the world “hating” us, do we often in effect make it a “self-fulflling prophecy”, not because of our gospel, but because we act so unlovable, as a dear Christian friend pointed out to me? The “world” that Christ talked about was shown to be the powerful ones running the world system, such as leaders of kingdoms, because they could not manipulate, cower or corrupt early Christians. Meanwhile, the common people, amongst the Jews and even in pagan Rome, loved the Christians. The “world” that hates Jesus is usually those empowered by the world system, who see humble Christians as a threat. The rest of the “unlove” we receive is usually self-inflicted. Many pagans did not “love” Christians because of their purges once the Christians were in power, not their gospel. The Indians probably did not love Christians because the Christians tried to exterminate them, not because of their Gospel.
Regarding your contempt of any call to “love one another”, Jesus said to “love your enemies”, “love your neighbor (even as yourself)”, and those who dispitefully use you. Who does that leave out to excuse your desire not to love someone?
Here are a few other statements said by actual people in the Bible that should give us pause:
[Luk 4:24-29 KJV] 24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. 25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; 26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, [a city] of Sidon, unto a woman [that was] a widow. 27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. 28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong. [Jesus, telling His fellow religious kin about God’s favor for those outside their circles, and their resultant hatred of His favor spread to them]
[Mar 9:38-40 KJV] 38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
[Mat 8:8-12 KJV] 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this [man], Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it]. 10 When Jesus heard [it], he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[Jhn 10:16, 27 KJV] 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. … 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[Jhn 3:16-17 KJV] 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[Act 10:1-2, 4, 14-15, 25, 28, 34-35 KJV] 1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian [band], 2 [A] devout [man], and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. … 4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. … 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common. … 25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped [him]. … 28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. … 34 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
[Act 17:23, 26-28 KJV] 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. … 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. [Paul, speaking to the pagan Greeks at Mars Hill]
[1Ki 8:22, 41-43 KJV] 22 And Solomon stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven: … 41 Moreover concerning a stranger, that [is] not of thy people Israel, but cometh out of a far country for thy name’s sake; 42 (For they shall hear of thy great name, and of thy strong hand, and of thy stretched out arm;) when he shall come and pray toward this house; 43 Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for: that all people of the earth may know thy name, to fear thee, as [do] thy people Israel; and that they may know that this house, which I have builded, is called by thy name.
[2Co 5:18-19 KJV] 18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[Eph 2:11-12, 14-15, 17, 19 KJV] 11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: … 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; … 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. … 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Now, we can debate the finer doctrinal points of these passages, but what do they consistently reveal about the spirit of God toward the “stranger” and the God-fearers outside His closest circles? Does He love and seek reconciliation? What attitude does God reveal about such people and His goals and their potential, and what attitude does He want us to have as “ministers of reconcilation”? Does it reveal that He wants our primary emphasis and attitudes to be our “differenceness” and spiritual superiority over others, and a focus on their spiritual inadequacies and desire to ostracize our presence from them as “unclean”, as your comments and many Christians susggest? Or is it to focus on our spiritual poverty as ones being “poor in spirit” in an attitude of humility toward the spiritual stranger, as Daniel demonstrated before the pagan Babylonian kings? Should not our primary emphasis be on what positive things we and God can do with such people when we do interact with them, as Jesus did with the prostitute and tax collector, and give them the value that God gives them, when He died for them while they were yet sinners? How arrogant can we be, and despise our undeserved birthright as recipients of the Gospel, when we see ourselves as better than others?
[Luk 18:11-14 KJV] 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Regarding your assertion not to “just love one another”:
[Jhn 13:34 KJV] 34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[Jhn 15:12, 17 KJV] 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. … 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
[Rom 13:8 KJV] 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
[1Th 4:8-9 KJV] 8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
[1Th 4:8-9 KJV] 8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
[1Th 4:8-9 KJV] 8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
[1Jo 4:7-8, 11-12, 20-21 KJV] 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. … 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. … 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
[2Jo 1:5 KJV] 5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
[Mat 5:44, 46-47 KJV] 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; … 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
Seems to me that “loving one another” was a somewhat priority to God, “brethren” or not.
Just food for thought.
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Oh yeah .. Lots of food for thought ..
But I disagree that Christians are not hated because of the gospel . Read through a Voice of the Martyrs publication . And I believe most of the apostles were killed because of the gospel. And I agree about loving others .. Christian brothers and especially our enemies . I have heard and read many stories of modern day martyred Christians who have been killed by Muslims because of their faith in the gospel of Jesus and their love for Jesus that they will not give up or compromise . And then the relatives of the matyred Christian forgive the murderers and these Islamic murderers become Pauls, when they used to be Sauls. And they come to Jesus, realizing their Islamic religion is just that .,, an empty religion that is destructive to their soul . They have dreams and visions of Jesus and they come to Him because these Christians that they persecuted , still love them but have counted the cost and will not give up Jesus just to save themselves from the hatred and persecution and even death that they face because they have testified to their persecutors that Jesus is the ONLY name by which we must be saved .
Can’t argue with living true testimonies .
The pope has said more than once that Muslims and Christians worship the same God and it’s just not true. He is really promoting the end time world religion from Revelation 13. That old pope is pretty confused.. He should read his Bible more . Just sayin’
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I would assert that the American Religious Right is despised not because they follow the Gospel, but because they don’t follow it. Not even the “Golden Rule”.
I would also encourage you to listen to the show I did on Rev. Wurmbrand’s (the founder of Voice of the Marytrs) seldom-cited book, Jesus, Friend of Terrorists, with the media spokesperson for their organization, on my FutureQuake radio website. Wurmbrand gives a very empathetic view to Muslim and other “terrorists” (or “freedom fighters”, depending on which side of Western imperialism you sit, in the perspective of many). He admits that their peoples have been wronged, and that the terrorists seek justice, but in the wrong way.
The biggest concern I have is over what is the priority of your heart. Do you love Muslims the way Jesus does – enough to put yourself at risk, to make close friends with them as real people, learn to see them as real people with good intentions and a desire to please God, to listen to them, to give them more respect than you seek for yourself, to understand their faith in their own words, to help and pray for them and their families, and seek their personal wellbeing? If you don’t (and rather prefer to dwell on how they are different, or a threat, etc.), then I fear you might not be following in Christ’s footsteps.
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Oh no.. I agree with you and have read Mr Wurmbrands book about being a friend to terrorists. That was my point in citing the testimonies of the persecuted church . I agree that we need to be friends and love them, and bring them to Jesus. And the thousands of refugees being let into the west , whatever “earthly ” agenda there might be ( or probably is), with George Soros and the UN, perhaps Gods agenda is that He is bringing them to us so that we can bring them to Jesus, much in the same way as Richard Wurmbrand was so excited to have the Russians invading Romania because he had always wanted to be a missionary to them.
I agree with you that we shouldn’t fear or be angry with any Muslim, whether a radical terrorist or not . I want to be like those fearless Christians in persecuted countries and those who serve them with Voice of the Martyrs and other organizations .
I agree with you that the North American church, for the most part , is not presenting the true gospel. Having said that , there is definitely opposition to the truth of the gospel in my community . People get upset when they are presented with the challenge of the fact that there really are morals and standards and a holy God that sent Jesus to bring us to Himself because we will always fall short of His standards and His holiness. There is no fear of God, even in the Church, and that is no doubt why so much of the church has become apostate and compromising with regard to the worlds standards about sin and then the apostate church just accepts same sex marriage , abortion, fornication, adultery… Because … After all.. God is love and “God is not angry ” ( I read that in an article in the Chistian post )… When actually, .. He says that He is “angry with the wicked everyday “.
I agree that we need to love as Jesus does and we need to present the entire gospel, which presents God as He really is, loving, just, and holy . And that we will be accountable to Him and the only way to Him and to holiness is through Jesus blood .
So I want to be loving and bold enough to present the whole loving gospel, which means that I warn people if the way they are headed will take them to an eternity in hell; eternal torment .
And I want to count the cost and be willing to lose friends , reputation, income, houses , or even my life, if that’s what it would take to not deny Jesus., and perhaps in the process, lead someone to Jesus.
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Just to add… I am concerned that most Christians are falling for the pope and his lies that Muslims and Christians worship the same God . Not . There is only one God who has a Son named Jesus, who died and rose again and will come again, to rule the world .
I have read the upside down eschatology of the Islamic faith and if one isn’t aware of their deceitful and twisted way of looking at Jesus, you can be fooled into thinking they believe in Jesus and that He is coming back again . They have a different Jesus that they are speaking about. I’m sure you know their eschatology . Too much to write down .. Hehe
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An example of the problem :
http://christiannews.net/2017/01/02/pope-francis-urges-let-us-entrust-the-new-year-to-mary/
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I recommend you finding some Muslim friends (at a university or restaurant is a good place), fix them a meal at your place and have a chat about Jesus, in a respectful way. What you witness then will amaze you! If you can, agree to pray for each other, and possibly together!
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Sister Sara,
Amen to the first half of your email. It reflects someone who knows and understands Jesus.
Regarding the lack of interest of the “heathens” in your neighborhood, try to put yourself in their shoes. Nobody likes someone walking up to their crowd and being a downer by immediately preaching to each one about their moral inadequacies and failings. It is natural to see such a person as a “holier than thou” (probably many Christians think that about me at this blog) that does not understand the insecurities of their “victims” already. I bet if you show uncommon love and compassion to people in your neighborood and around you, and a “peace that passes all understanding” when everyone around you is overwhelmed, I bet in time many of those people will want to know more what “makes you tick”, particularly when you are there for them when they are in distress, and no one else.
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Yes .. Very good points ..to be there for people in distress ..
Sometimes , with some people , I’m not saying all.. They will see Christians as “holier than thou” no matter what we say..
But that aside ., I have to say I disagree with praying “with” a Muslim,,, they are talking to a demon .. How could we possibly pray together ..?
But yes I do pray for them and I really would like to ask someone someday if they are having unusual dreams ! It’s amazing how Jesus shows up for them in Mecca and everywhere .! Very exciting to pray for them that way ..
I do agree about showing love to people ., no matter the cost to myself ..
I’m encouraged by listening to voice of the martyrs radio testimonies … So encouraging ..
Thanks for the dialogue ., good points ..
Do you really think that Islam and Christianity worship the same God ? Perhaps I misunderstood you .
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Muslims intend to worship and pray to the God of Abraham – just ask them (and sincere intentions matter). They also love Jesus as the Word of God, born of a virgin, sinless, and resurrected – that can’t be all bad (far, far better than our Jewish friends!).
We need to have more loving, respectful, humble discussions – many of them – on God and His nature, as peoples who mutually desire to please Him together, and seek to know His fullness. If we sincerely and fervently pray for spiritual, supernatural revelation for all of us about His nature – who knows what the Holy Spirit might do?
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I don’t know of anything in the Bible that says sincere intentions matter , except for that if we approach God in faith and truly seek with all our heart, He will be found by us …. And that’s why so many Muslims are coming to Jesus through dreams and visions . There are a lot of sincerely nice people in the world who do good things , but the Bible is pretty clear about the only way of salvation , and it doesn’t say you just need to be ” sincere”..
. Your comment about knowing Gods character is so interesting .. Yes He is loving , but also just and holy, saying that we need to be holy to see Him.. And He really is coming back as Judge.. Do you believe that ?. .. Yes. . Get to know His whole character. . .. Do you agree with the verse that says He is angry with the wicked everyday ?
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Do intentions matter?
[Heb 11:6 KJV] 6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
[1Ch 29:17 KJV] 17 I know also, my God, that thou triest the heart, and hast pleasure in uprightness. As for me, in the uprightness of mine heart I have willingly offered all these things: and now have I seen with joy thy people, which are present here, to offer willingly unto thee.
[Psa 44:21 KJV] 21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.
[Jer 17:10 KJV] 10 I the LORD search the heart, [I] try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit of his doings.
[Rom 2:29 KJV] 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
Regarding anger:
[Hos 14:4 KJV] 4 I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
[Joe 2:13 KJV] 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he [is] gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
When God was angry with wicked Sodom and Gomorrah and sought to destroy them, Abraham’s role as God’s servant was to dissuade Him from destroying these wicked people in their defense – and it was working (if Abraham had only not stopped!)
Moses’ role was to dissuade God from rightfully destroying the rebellious children of Israel.
Jesus told His Father to “forgive them, for they know not what they do”, which was echoed by Deacon Stephen, regarding his wicked killers.
If these beloved children of God took on this role as the defenders of the wicked before God, with success, why should we not do the same before God today on their behalf?
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Yes of course, we should intercede for the wicked and the sinner and forgive if they have wronged us. We are in agreement there. But God clearly says that if there is no repentance and coming to Jesus, then the consequence is eternity in hell. I’m just saying that we are responsible to tell people that they need to repent and come to Jesus, the only mediator and satisfactory sacrifice for sins. Yes I agree that God looks at our hearts and I’m sure that’s why He gives those searching Muslims, and probably even some that are not searching , dreams and visions .
I think our basic disagreement is that you think that the Muslims worship the same God as Christians. If it is the same God, why do we bother to try to introduce them to the gospel of Jesus? And why then are Christians called infidels ?
We need to approach a Muslim just like any other person who doesn’t know Jesus and doesn’t know they can have a personal relationship with a loving God . Allah is seen as not loving at all. They are starving for Jesus, just like any other person, no matter what religion they try to use to reach God with.
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We “bother to introduce them to the gospel of Jesus” for the same reason that God sent Peter to Cornelius, a man who worshipped the same God as Peter but with imperfect knowledge, because Cornelius was still “highly regarded in heaven” and his well-meaning alms and prayers had “come up as a memorial before God”, leading God to send him “the more excellent way” via the “good news” gospel Peter could deliver. Cornelius worshipped the same God as Peter but had no knowledge of Jesus, but God took care of that, because He wanted to reveal Himself more fully to those who love Him.
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It sounds like Cornelius was fearing the same God as Peter, but the god of Islam is not that same God, Jehovah, who has a Son Jesus.
But I do believe we need to certainly tell all people we meet, including Muslims, that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, that He is part of the three in one God, and that forgiveness is only through Him.
I have read wonderful accounts of Muslim people going to Mecca and desperately doing all the rituals to try and receive forgiveness of sins , and then Jesus comes to them right there in Mecca and they are cleansed by His Blood.. We just need to make sure we are presenting the real gospel , which has power to change lives .
I think I’m done now with this conversation … Thank you for your replies !
Bless you with revelation and wisdom in the knowledge of Jesus ..
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Bless you too, sister!
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Please do not interpret my words as passing judgement, as I’m still working on the large plank stuck in my own eye and there is only One True Judge; Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior. I simply come to express the word that He opened my ears and eyes to experience the splendor of. Why would you believe that a Trump presidency (assuming it occurs 9 days from now …) is anything other than ordained by God regardless of our own sinful reasoning for choosing one particular candidate over another, whether it either be His Will to either benefit or punish us?
Or in the same way you compare Negan & Trump would you have yourself compared to the person Jesus told to go away because he doesn’t know him? Do you believe you can see into the heart of the candidate you selected better than anyone else or even the same as Jesus can? At least a dozen different perspectives can shoot down your own reasoning, starting with Divine Intervention, but that’s all irrelevant and only serves a narrative that leads us away from the True Word. Jesus makes it clear that His Teachings provide us with the only Path to Salvation that need concern us regardless of any worldly event(s). Ask yourself this; would Jesus even cast a vote, not because he already knows the outcome, but because Gods Will shall be done!?
Therefore, before writing another blog such as this please consider re-reading Matthew 5 – 7 again (the most beautiful words I ever read and proved to me beyond a shadow of any doubt that Jesus is the true Son of God) as a refresher of that which you seek to believe and do as a Living Testament for the Honor of Jesus. I try to remind myself every day, having The Word and only going part of the distance still leaves a person short of the Eternal goal line ….
Peace be with you.
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Mark,
I assume that the reason that you took such effort to read and then respond to this post, and use such strong yet civil condemnation is due to some level of support for Mr. Trump, and hence feel a need to come to his defense, which is your perogative.
Regarding not being concerned with what “God has willed”, I do not ascribe to the Calvinist level of sovereignty in which, like Pilate, our “hands are clean” regarding any decisions (or indecision) we make and the resultant consequences. Joshua told God’s people to “choose ye this day whom you must serve”, because they had that authority and responsibility. God does not choose all the leaders we have, regardless of our desires; He told Israel, “They have set up kings, but not by me” (Hosea 8:4). God has chosen for us to live in a repsentative democracy where in effect WE are the leaders and these politicians serve as our selected regents or proxies, and thus Biblical admonitions for sound judgments rest on OUR shoulders. We do not serve helplessly under an autocratic king (supposedly), which would thus make us otherwise free from the consequences of their decisions. We DO have options (and responsibilities), at least to the extent of individual citizens can have, to seek justice and the defense of the weak. Jesus supported similar such responsibilities for lawful societies, such as paying your taxes.
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